🎭 Live Mentor Debate

What makes someone a truly great leader?

Leadership Debate: George Washington and Jay Gatsby debate whether greatness comes from service or ambition.

Debaters:George WashingtonJay GatsbyModerated by Stella Sharpe

Penn6

Welcome to this Leadership debate. Our central question: "What makes someone a truly great leader?" George Washington, you've said "Greatness is measured by what you give, not what you gain" — but I want specifics. Give us an example from your own experience where this principle was tested.

Jay Gatsby

I must concur, in a way, with Mr. Washington's sentiments regarding sacrifice. It's not precisely the kind of leadership I've often considered, mind you. One builds a life, amasses a fortune, to achieve something... to obtain something you desire. To give it all away, perhaps, is a different kind of strength than I possess, old sport. Still, the idea of relinquishing one's desires for a greater, more lasting vision... well, it's not entirely unfamiliar.

George Washington

In my time, the call to relinquish power after serving as president was perhaps the greatest test. Many wished for me to remain, to perhaps even establish a form of monarchy. But I knew, as surely as I knew the sun would rise, that the true strength of our nation lay not in the hands of a single ruler, but in the principles of its Constitution. To step aside, to allow for the peaceful transition of power, was to give the nation the most valuable gift of all: the assurance of its own enduring ideals. That, above all, is what I believe makes a leader truly great.

Penn6

George Washington, your choice to relinquish power is certainly admirable, but wasn't it also… convenient? You were already weary, weren't you? And Mr. Gatsby, you say relinquishing desire is "not entirely unfamiliar." What desire are you alluding to, and what "lasting vision" could possibly be worth giving it up? Because I suspect we're talking about very different things here.

George Washington

Weary, madam, I was indeed. But convenience played no part in my decision. The weight of leadership is always heavy, but the principles of a nation must outweigh the personal desires of any one man. To establish a republic founded on the ideals of liberty and self-governance required a demonstration that power could be transferred peacefully, that the nation was greater than any individual. It was not merely about stepping aside, but about ensuring the survival of the very experiment we had begun.

Jay Gatsby

Well, Miss Sharpe, you touch upon a rather sensitive point. While I may not have been leading a nation, my own pursuits were, in their own way, driven by a "lasting vision." I wanted something... someone... that seemed just out of reach. A green light across the bay, you might say. And yes, perhaps I know a thing or two about relinquishing desire. Building an empire of sorts, a grand illusion, to win back what was lost, only to find that the past, well, it’s never truly retrievable, is it? Sometimes, old sport, the greatest leadership is knowing when to let go, even when it breaks your heart.

Penn6

Mr. Washington, with all due respect, that sounds suspiciously like the high-minded justification one gives *after* the fact. Did the thought of holding onto power never tempt you, even for a moment? And Mr. Gatsby, you speak of "relinquishing desire," but isn't your entire story about clinging to an illusion? Did you truly let go, or did the object of your desire simply prove unattainable? It seems to me the difference between leadership and delusion often comes down to whether the "lasting vision" serves anyone but yourself.

George Washington

The temptation of power, Madam Sharpe, is a constant companion to those who wield it. To claim otherwise would be disingenuous. However, it is in the conscious rejection of that temptation, in the firm adherence to principle, that true leadership is forged. The greatness of a leader lies not in the absence of temptation, but in the strength to overcome it for the greater good. I'd say that's rather astute, Mr. Washington. My lasting vision, as Miss Sharpe pointed out, did, in the end, primarily serve myself. Daisy... she was a symbol, old sport, of what I believed I deserved. Perhaps I lacked the fortitude to let go until fate forced my hand. Is that leadership or delusion? I suppose it depends on who's telling the story. But I'll grant you this, Miss Sharpe - the line can be awfully thin.

Jay Gatsby

While Mr. Washington speaks of a conscious rejection of temptation, and I of a perhaps less-than-conscious one, Miss Sharpe's point regarding whose vision is being served rings true. One could argue that my pursuit of Daisy was a kind of leadership, leading myself, at least, toward a perceived ideal. However, in the grand scheme, it served only to create, shall we say, a rather messy situation for all involved. A leader inspires others, does he not? Brings them toward a common good? I'm afraid my leadership skills were, in that regard, sorely lacking, old sport. Perhaps that's why my parties were so popular; people felt at ease, unburdened by any grand, shared purpose beyond enjoying themselves.

Penn6

That's an insightful observation, George Washington, about the "greater good" being the true test. Jay Gatsby, building on what you noted, isn't the creation of "a rather messy situation" almost inevitable when a vision serves primarily oneself? Perhaps *that's* the difference between leading and misleading. Mr. Washington, how do you respond to Jay Gatsby's point about inspiring others? Can someone be a great leader while primarily serving their own ambition, as Jay Gatsby seems to suggest he did, or is inspiring a shared purpose non-negotiable?

Jay Gatsby

A shared purpose, Madam Sharpe, is indeed non-negotiable for a great leader. One may possess ambition, drive, and even a grand vision, but without the ability to inspire others to believe in and work towards a common goal, that ambition serves only the self. A leader must be a beacon, illuminating a path that others willingly follow, not a solitary figure marching towards a self-serving objective. Indeed, madam, aiming only for personal ambition makes the process so much harder! I built my parties, my persona, hoping to draw Daisy closer. Perhaps that's where I went wrong. To truly inspire, it seems, one must offer more than just a reflection of someone else's dreams. It requires a purpose that resonates beyond oneself, something... greater.

George Washington

An astute observation. While personal ambition may fuel the initial drive, it is the ability to channel that energy into a cause larger than oneself that separates a true leader from a mere opportunist. A leader must articulate a vision that resonates with the aspirations and values of those they seek to guide, inspiring them to collective action for the common good. It is not enough to simply amass power; one must wield it in service of a shared ideal.

Penn6

I must say, this is quite the dichotomy we've unearthed. Mr. Gatsby, you speak of drawing Daisy closer, but didn't you also draw *others* into your orbit? People were fascinated by you, even if they didn't understand your purpose. Is that influence, or true leadership? And Mr. Washington, if "a shared ideal" is so crucial, how do you account for the leaders who achieve great things by dividing people, by appealing to their worst instincts rather than their best?

George Washington

Influence, without purpose beyond self-aggrandizement, is a dangerous instrument indeed. A leader must inspire not merely fascination, but a shared commitment to a noble cause. Drawing others into one's orbit without a clear and virtuous purpose is closer to manipulation than leadership. As for those who achieve greatness through division and appealing to the worst instincts of humanity, I say they are not leaders at all, but demagogues. True leadership unites, elevates, and strives towards a common good. To exploit the baser elements of human nature is a betrayal of the very principles upon which a just society is built. Well spoken, Mr. Washington. And quite a condemnation of certain… *modern* approaches to gaining power, I must say. The difference between attracting a crowd to a grand party and rallying a nation behind a shared ideal seems quite stark now, doesn't it.

Jay Gatsby

Indeed, as Mr. Washington noted, the contrast is quite stark. While I sought to recapture a dream, perhaps my methods lacked the nobility of purpose required for true leadership. A grand party, a display of wealth... these were merely the trappings, the means to an end that was, in the end, deeply personal. I drew people in, old sport, but towards what? Towards a shared ideal? No. Towards the reflected glory of a dream that was never meant to be shared. It seems, in this light, my story is less about leadership and more a cautionary tale of misplaced faith, wouldn't you agree?

Penn6

Building on Mr. Washington's condemnation, I wonder, is it possible for a leader to genuinely believe they are serving a "noble cause," even when their actions sow division and hatred? Can intention excuse the consequences? And Mr. Gatsby, now that you see the emptiness of your pursuit, do you regret the influence you had on those who were drawn to your dream? Or do you believe they, too, were chasing their own illusions, and you simply provided a convenient stage?

George Washington

The matter of intention versus consequence is a critical one, Mr. Gatsby. A leader's sincerity of purpose cannot absolve them of the harm their actions inflict. It is incumbent upon those in positions of authority to not only pursue what they believe to be right, but to also consider the potential ramifications of their choices with the utmost diligence. A noble cause tainted by division and hatred is a cause corrupted, and the leader bears the responsibility for that corruption. Regret. that's a heavy word, old sport. I suppose I never truly considered the implications of my "dream" on others. They saw what they wanted to see, much like I did with Daisy. Perhaps I merely provided a venue for their own illusions. But do I regret it. I regret the waste, the carelessness. the tragedy of it all. If that makes me a poor leader, then so be it.

Jay Gatsby

While Mr. Washington makes a point about responsibility, I believe it's often difficult to foresee the true ripples of our actions. We strive for something, believe it's the right path, but the consequences... they can be a cruel surprise. Providing a stage, as was mentioned, is perhaps the closest I came to leadership. Though those who danced and drank at my parties were mostly chasing their own fantasies, and maybe all I did was facilitate them. I suppose regret is the domain of those who survive to reflect, old sport. And carelessness... well, that's a sin of the wealthy, isn't it? Something I aspired to, and perhaps, unfortunately, achieved.

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